This has been a day of recognizing much selfishness in me. It is interesting how seeing that causes a feeling of exhaustion, somehow maybe also failure. Do you share the experience? But from a different perspective, - isn´t failing in selfishness unnatural?
18 comments:
Kampelanpäitä lokeille kipatessani olen joskus tarkkaillut, että epäitsekkäin yksilö saa vähiten syödäkseen.
Samalla ihmeteellessäni lokkien tappelua olen verrannut niitä ihmiseen ja väistämättä on tullut mieleen, että itsekkäällä johtamistavalla tienaa ainakin rahaa hyvin.
Ystäviä ja sympatiaa näillä itsekkäillä menetelmillä tuskin ansaitsee. Jos verrataan että ruoka on lokille rahaa, niin itsekkäin kyllä syö parhaiten, mutta ajautuu useimmiten myös tappeluun muiden kanssa! Voisiko tästä oppia jotain?
Uskoisin, että ihmisellä pitää ja kuuluu olla jonkin verran itsekkyyttä. Jos se puuttuu kokonaan, niin elää onnettomana, koska uhkaa aina jäädä jalkoihin! Varmastikin omatunto kertoo milloin itsekkyys on menemässä liiallisuuksiin!
Hej min Sara
I just come home from a great horsebackriding to Bakka ( where they want to put down the aluminium factory), first time in more than a year, the weather was fantastic, warm (considering the time of year) and quite windy, making the horse even more excited and wanting to run, run, run.
Now Kent is on CD player "Vapen och Ammunition",. and life is good...
Selfishness, I guess more natural than most, at least not unnatural at all. Most children I have meet are so selfish,.. not being selfish is something you have to be taught. And even then it will keep popping up from time to time. I am very selfish from time to time, but recognizing it prevent me usually from acting selfish. Once I was very much in love with a woman, but she was spoken for. Still I wanted her to dump the other guy,..... Very selfish!!! I am very selfish but I do my best to control it there by not hurting fellow beings. Maybe one is more likely to fall into the pit, when feeling sad and lonely, so maybe feeling selfish just indicates that you are not just feeling that great. This probably just concerns people who want good. Many are just selfish because they think is is good for them.....
WalkWell min vakre Sara, Jan
I think that being selfish comes from the primal urge to claim your own, what you think you need and what you think you deserve. Many people claim more than they deserve. Most people claim more than they need. To stop and think about other beings around you, and their needs, and to give something up that you think you need, deserve or just plain want for your own, be it a physical object or just an opinion on some matter, is a gift most people have, but don't use often enough.
I try to do that, but I often catch myself being selfish. All I can do is try harder.
I don't think of you as a selfish person at all. But I guess everybody have that side to them, guess I just haven't seen yours yet. But I wouldn't worry about it, its just normal.
Hope Im making some sence.
Utan egoism kan ingen överleva! Låter inte klokt, men det är sant. Barn är egoistiska för att dom måste ser till att få det dom behöver för att överleva. Jag tror vi blir extra egoistiska just då vi känner oss överkörda eller allmänt behöver nånting mera diffust eller konkret för att må bra.
egoisten Eva-Lotta
Huomenta!
Niin, lapsilla tuollainen itsekkyys ja primitiivinen käyttäytyminen on vilpitöntä ja osoittaa, että ihmisen perimään on jo lisätty itsekkyyttä!
Aikuisena itsekkäät ajatukset lienevät usein läsnä, mutta niiden toteuttamista voi ohjailla valinnoillaan. (Onko tässä jokin ihmisen ja eläimen välinen ero ja miksi?)
Rakastuminen taas on voimakas primitiivinen reaktio, jolloin itsekkyyskin astuu taas voimakkaasti kuvioihin, kun tavoittelee haluamaansa muilta kilpailijoilta.
...nyt jatkan valmistautumista uuteen päivään :)
Klasu
Through the window of the train the landscape passes so fast that it turns 2-dimensional and distant. I´m on the way to Helsinki to do a daytrip out in nature, - bizarre...
Indeed, the selfishness is also what we teachers struggle with every day in school. We get together, grumble over the lack of respect and solidarity, and try to come up with a plan to change that. But of course it´s true, we learn the right answers but keep our selfishness. Possibly we learn to ration it with time. In the forces of seduction, misery, fear or something else primitive it then suddenly takes control again. It´s interesting, whether there is reincarnation or some form of continuum for the soul or not, all of us seem to need to start the journey from scratch. We tend to struggle with these things throughout life, - hanging on to the primitivity of childhood but still seeking wisdom and reverence.
Klasu was wondering in finnish if one difference between animal and man could be that an adult human can steer his selfishness through his choices. Here my mind fills with dolphins. I´ve been cutting out articles every now and then when the press has been interwieving scientists and others wo are all astonished and confused with how unselfishly dolphins have behaved in situations where humans are in danger. Close to some shore in the south they saved a swimmer from an attacking shark by forming a cirkle around him, slapping their flukes to keep the shark away, and finally guided him safely to land. The humans observing could not understand why one species would try to do something like this for another one.
Children often do this as well, inspite of how they act towards each other. How often isn´t it a child that wants to save the mouse that the cat carries in, or put bandage around the wingbroken bird. I often run into an attitude that stamps environmentalists, peace activists or people involved in animal rights as naive, sentimental, bitter and confused or just in general as persons you shouldn´t take too seriously. Contradictory, we are.
Interessting with the dolphins, .. really something to think about,.. why the H... would they do a thing like? Maybe they are just showing off,.. or deliberatly getting on the sharks nerves,.. I don't know.
Regarding the reactions of the children you mention,.. you can care for others beings and still be selfish, don't you think so?, just because you are selfish doesn't mean you are emotional disabled. And also if the mouse was eating the child's candy, maybe he/she was more likely to approve of the cat eating the mouse.
WalkWell vakre Sara, Jan
(...selvennyskorjauksen jälkeen uusi yritys laittaa tämä...)
Eilen oltiin ystävien kesken kokemassa luontoa läheisesti ja vähintäänkin kolmiulotteisesti :) Poltettiin nuotiota pimeällä Jurmon peikkoleppämetsässä jäätyneen lammen rannalla. Grillailtiin, siemailtiin ja höpisteltiin mukavia! Hieno yhdistelmä tuo tuli ja pimeyden salaperäisyys! :D
Niin, hassua minustakin tuo dolphiinihommeli... Itse aina kun on nähnyt villejä delfiinejä läheltä (pari metriä), niin kokee liikutuksen väristyksiä ja alkaa itkettään... En tiedä onko toisilla niin, mutta minä koen heidät vahvasti. Ja käytetäänhän delfiinejä terapeuttisiin tarkoituksiinkin, joten jokin erilainen vaikutus heillä on ihmismieleen. Siitä tulikin mieleen, että toimiikohan tuo toisinkin päin ja delfiinit kokevat samanlaisia sympatioita ihmistä kohtaan ja tästä syystä haluavat pelastaa tämän ihanan olennon?
Tuli myös mieleen, että lueskelen narsismia käsittelevää kirjaa. Kirjan mukaan narsismi ei ole tavallaan periytyvää, vaan johtuu varhaislapsuudessa tapahtuneista kasvatuksellisista "virheistä".
Nyt rupesi tuumituttamaan, että miten jos narsismi pitää ikäänkuin kitkeä pois lapselta tai estää sen muodostuminen, niin miten se tällöin voi olla vika? Silloinhan se on vanhempien määräämä tapa ja miten h e i d ä n mielestään kuuluu olla!?
Noh, joka tapauksessa näitä ääri-itsekkäitä tyyppejä ei varmaankaan voi olla pitämättä harvinaisen v-mäisinä, mutta silti mielestäni tässä voisi olla hyvää pohdittavaa!
Jan min, har du stigit upp med fel fot i morse... eller tolkar jag fel? :) I definitely did not mean that being selfish would be the same as emotional disability. Maybe it got a little blurry...
The contradiction i referred to had to do with the way we learn to hush down our primitive reactions as we grow up with explanations like the term "law of nature". An environmetalist that chains himself to an old tree that is supposed to become timber is classified as naive or irrational, at the same time as we keep seeking unity with the primitive feelings of childhood as a harmony with our surroundings. Am I making any sence?
I recently had a talk with my sister about something that touches this a little, and a little more something else... She studies in Vasa, and in that area there´s lots of farmers that are involved in bringing up foxes and minks for fur. She was now saying that when she moved there she had opinions on why fur-farming is unethical and all in all no good, but the opinions didn´t mean much after a while. The sons and daughters of the farmers were quick in convincing her of that putting a stop to this industry would be far less ethical. Hundreds of familys would loose their jobs and would have to move to town, with the result of a deserted countryside. Rationality becoming logical, and logic becoming ethics?
But again, returning to the ethics of a child. I think you´re absolutely right, Jan. A childs measure for right or wrong is influenced by the benefit he or she gets from it.
Klasu. Minkä tyyppisiä olivat kirjassa mainitut kasvatukselliset virheet, osaatko tiivistää? Ja niin, moni aikuisen tai auktoriteetin määrittelemä ideaali selitetään etiikkana, luonnollisuutena/luonnottomuutena jne ilman että niissä olisi universaalia pätevyyttä. Valta ja retoriikka tekevät päätöksestä normin.
Aevar, great to have you here as well! I´d like to flumma about this with deserving, but that´ll have to wait a little. A nights rest first. But it is absolutely brilliant being able to talk like this with all you wonderful friends. Sleep well. -S.
Denis Leary once said that the problem with this world is that we only want to save the cute animals. He wanted to line them up and interview them one by one.
What are you?
Im an otter.
And what do you do?
I swim on my back and do cute human things wiht my hands.
Aww... you are free to go.
What are you?
Im a cow.
Get in the truck!!
But I have rights!
You are a baseball glove, get in the ****ing truck!
There is some truth in that. I think. With out wanting to say that all the "tree hugers" are naive.
Just came from a concert held to raise money for a group thats fighting to save some old houses, trees and a small river with a tiny waterfall. Its an area called Álafoss. Where my grandmother has bought all the lopa in my lopapeysur all my life. Where Sigur Rós and other bands make all their music. The plan is to put a road over all that. Im not used to take part in any protesting even though I somewhat suport the protestors. But in this case Im influenced by the benefits that this area has given me, and will give me for years to come. Guess Im beeing a bit selfish then, right? If we win, Ill take you there someday Sara mín, we can have a picnic with pancakes and búlla. Góða Nótt.
Hej min Sara,...
Nei jag har inte stigit upp med fel fot i går morse,... problemet med den her form for kommunikation, er at man ikke kan se glimtet i öjet...
Med hensyn til din sösters oplevelse, saa kunne dem der arbejdede i kz lejrene under den anden verdenskrig jo bruge de samme argumenter,(glimt i öjet) uden en yderlig samligning.
WalkWell vakre, Jan
Tack för intressant läsning, Jan! Jag sätter in adressen här, för jag tror den kunde intressera fler. Och ja, det här med koncentrationslägren och rävfarmerna är återgång till temat med konstruktionerna vi bygger upp och sedan deklarerar oss beroende av.
The ones of you who don´t have a clue of what is said in the danish article, just have a bit of fun, - eat oatmeal and read it out loud to eachother...hilarious.
http://politiken.dk/videnskab/article248209.ece
Eva-Lotta, jag tror minsann du har rätt. Själviskheten hör till överlevnadsmekanismerna, och det finns ingen värre förintelse än den sociala. Så när vi känner oss socialt svaga, hotade eller borttappade är själviskheten ett sätt att försöka tackla känslan.
Hade du "Egoist? Ja visst" - trycket redan på listan?
(En annan sak: i fall du försöker nå mig per telefon kan jag meddela att min mobil ligger på köksbordet i Kumlinge och jag är i Åbo. Gör en sväng hem på onsdag.)
Aevar, the trip sounds just charming. And yes, i partly agree with Denis Leary, but i also think this is much dependent on how experienced we are in life with animals. Without personal experience of an animal one easily values according to how the appearance and behaviour fits into our models.
In 1988 the finnish artist Teemu Mäki made a piece that became both scandal and discussion. It was censored and in Finland only seen by a small audience, but as rumour and legend it travelled widely. He got a homeless cat from the animal protection society and promised to take well care of it. His way of taking care of it was to cut off its head with an axe, masturbate on the corps and make a video of all this. The incident became a part of a longer video called "My Way, a Work in Progress". There were many aspects and meanings in the work, but in general he wanted to make a statement on violence. By doing violence that would shake the people he wanted to make everyday violence visible, -for example the kind that is in the backgroud of much of what we consume.
He was taken to court and got convicted for tormenting the cat, even if the slaughter was faster and more "humane" than much of the slaughter in this world today. What made the people cry out for justice was of course the fact that it was a cat, the beloved pet and friend. Still today we finns are chocked by the work, but we run like headless chickens when the supermarket announces a discount on violently fattened goose.
Dear Sara
At times, for people like us, selfishness has a place in our lives...it keeps us fed when we are alone, causes us, like vanity, to take the time to bother to brush our teeth, comb our hair, change out clothes. It is only when this selfishness deprives others that we should stop and take a quick look around. Some might say that even the most altruistic of us are selfish because we secretly want the satisfaction of helping others....
cheers to you my friend...I might be back in your area this summer, cooking and sailing.
xox
john
Iltapalaa...
Minäkin oleskelen Turun liepeillä, mutta potemassa pahaa mieltä. Rakkaalla Toppa-hevosella todettiin tänään syöpä ja ollaan järjestetty huomiseksi "prosessin" keskeyttämistä ja paikkaa maallisille osille Kuusiston peltoon...
Mutta elämän on jatkuttava ja yritän vastata kysymykseen:
En siis missään nimessä kiellä, etteikö kirjassa olisi järkeviä ja oivaltamaan auttavia ajatuksia! Tuumin vain muuten...
Kirjan mukaan eräs narsismiin johtava syy on esimerkiksi, kun vauvaiän jälkeen alkaa tutkia mitä se maailma pitääkään sisällään. Toisinaan tulee tehtyä jotain tuhmaa, josta äiti toruu. Lapselle äiti on idoli, jolle vahingossa aiheutettu mielipaha tuottaa suurta häpeää itsestä. Ja jos tätä häpeän tunnetta ei katkaise osoittamalla lapselle, että hän on tuhmasta teosta huolimatta rakastettu ja normaali, niin lapselle kehittyy eräänlainen aikuisuuteen asti jatkuva häpeäkammo! Ja juuri tämä kyvyttömyys käsitellä häpeää on eräs narsistin käyttäytymistä ohjaava syy.
Mutta kirjassa oli paljon muitakin helppotajuisesti selitettyjä syitä miksi tulee narsistiksi. Vaikea vielä on paremmin tiivistellä, kun kirja on itseltäkin vielä kesken, mutta tuossa nyt yksi esimerkki :) Jos ketään kiinostaa lukea, niin kirjan nimi on "Miksi aina sinä" (ISBN 952-5534-11-1)
Syy miksi tuota luen on yksinkertaisesti se, että haluan pyrkiä ymmärtämään esimerkiksi narsistia. On paljon helpompaa ymmärtää ja hyväksyä, kuin että yrittäisi paheksumalla ja moittimalla muuttaa ihmistä, joka ei edes ymmärrä tekevänsä väärin!
Mutta nyt on ruvettava tutimaan ja valmistauduttava huomisen ikävään...
John, warm thoughts from a cold evening. Yes... the most altruistic of us.. Well, the feeling of being needed, -how many of us wouldn´t want that? I think this is also a phenomenon that isn´t very rare for example in religions. As a true and just child of God you should do your good deeds to secure your place beyond this life. That is also where the territory-thinking starts, with drawing the line between us and them. (The ones who do right and the ones who don´t, the ones that believe and the ones that are lost etc..) But it is very likely that we will never be able to think in a way that doesn´t separate in territory or value, why should we.
You are very welcome to run ashore here. There will be a garden to take the potatoes, basil and thyme from...
Klasu, ikävä kuulla. Liekö lähtö saaresta tehnyt sairaaksi? Jummi kun on eläimiinkin asettunut tuo kipulapsi. Hyvää loppuunsaattoa kuitenkin. Ajatukseni, S.
Ahhh....herbed potatoes...I love them...I'll sea if I can take control of the rudder long enought o stop by for a visit!
xox
John
Ehhehe!!! :D
Nyt vasta luin sen paviaanilinkin! Eikä voi olla hehkuttamatta, etteikö Norrgrannaksen Universityn arvostettu stressi ja evoluutiotutkija Klas Mattsson olisi tullut suurinpirtein samoihin tuloksiin hyttyspäätelmillään! ;D
..... ja kukas sen kissan hännän taas nostikaan.... :)
Post a Comment